Ep 34 How to Leverage other People's Audiences with Tom Schwab
Grow your Audience with This Trick!
I grew my personal brand exclusively through this strategy before I left my FT job, so, I can attest, this bad a$$ tip works.
I built my business to six figures before leaving my full-time job, and I did it by leveraging other people’s audiences.
You start off at zero, but so does everyone else. The way to grow your audience quickly is to:
A) Add value & solve your ideal customer’s problem.
B) Get in front of your ideal customer.
So, if you have NO audience, it feels impossible, but it’s not.
Through marketing activities like:
Guest blogging
Guest podcasting
Partner webinar
Joint offers
Interview-style podcast or YouTube show
You grow FAST.
In this episode, we discuss one specific activity: Podcast Guesting.
Tom Schwab
Have you ever thought your digital marketing might actually be hurting your business? That you are not “breaking through the noise”, you are just adding to it? Perhaps you are not “one funnel away”. Maybe that funnel is stopping the big fish you want. Our guest today has a refreshingly new view. Tom Schwab asks you to consider that you are just One Conversation Away. That’s the title of his new book based on his experience and that data working with over 700 leading brands as the Chief Evangelist Officer at Interview Valet. If you want a rich life and a profitable business, Tom believes you are just One Conversation Away.
Interview Valet
Transcript
[00:00:00] Tom Schwab: I believe that everyone's biggest problem is obscurity as a business owner. So there's lots of people that you could help. , the biggest problem is they don't know you exist. Hi, I'm Tom Schwab. I'm the founder of Interview Valet and one of the hacks that I have learned that works really well for me especially today, is leveraging other people's audiences.
[00:00:22] Tom Schwab: 20 years ago, we used to do this with guest blogging. 30 years ago it was as seen on television. Today it's really. Podcast guest leveraging other people's audiences. Get that no and trust. And really the idea of making every minute work for you as a small business owner there's a lot of things you can do.
[00:00:44] Tom Schwab: You wanna make sure that you are playing to your strengths. And that we started to do this over nine years ago. Built a team around it and now I'm honored to to lead a team of 30 people in Europe and North America. That. Small businesses [00:01:00] that help authors, coaches brands to get on targeted podcast interviews so they can speak directly to their ideal customers and grow their business.
[00:01:09] Tom Schwab: And if I can do it from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you can do it from wherever you are. ,
[00:01:15] Sarah Noel Block: you are really speaking my language with the no like trust factor. I shout that from the rooftops. Anybody who's trying to start a business, that's what you need to do. You need people to know that you exist and then care that you exist and then trust you.
[00:01:33] Sarah Noel Block: And you can only do that by educating people. And podcasts are an amazing way to do it.
[00:01:39] Tom Schwab: And I, went back later in life to get my my M B A in marketing, but so much of the stuff that we're taught, it works for Coke and Pepsi and Proctor and Gamble. I'm sorry, I don't have the marketing teams or the marketing budget to compete on that.
[00:01:55] Tom Schwab: And so it's like I look at it and say, what is my superpower? What can I [00:02:00] do? What brings me. , right? And if you tell me, write a blog I'll clean up my office and go to the dentist before I write the blog. for me, that's a homework assignment. But if you're like, Hey do you want to talk with Sarah for a half hour?
[00:02:15] Tom Schwab: Oh yeah, that would be great. And to create that content and then to be able to repurpose that into blogs and social media. It's easier and I think it helps you stand out. Is my social media campaign gonna look better than Proctor and Gamble? Probably not. But actually speaking to someone maybe I can stand out a little bit.
[00:02:39] Tom Schwab: I. .
[00:02:41] Sarah Noel Block: The longer I'm doing podcasts, the longer I've had my own podcast and I've been guessing on others. The more I love it, the relationship building that happens during that process of interviewing someone or being interviewed and the promotion and [00:03:00] before the interview even starts, you have some back and forth.
[00:03:04] Sarah Noel Block: I have built the most important relationships in my business through podcasting, and it has done wonders, . .
[00:03:15] Tom Schwab: It's last year my phrase was one conversational away. And everybody in marketing says you're one funnel away. Nothing good in my life has ever come through a funnel, right? I didn't meet my bride because I had this perfect funnel and 7 billion people came through.
[00:03:33] Tom Schwab: It it. All, things of value come from a conversation, right? Your next new. Great client is gonna come from a conversation, your next new employee your next new partner, all of those things. And I think the more I can do to put myself in those conversations the bigger of an impact it'll have. And as a business owner, that's one of those things that [00:04:00] your superpower that you bring, you're the figurehead of the company.
[00:04:03] Tom Schwab: You're the spokesperson. You're the one that has to have those conversations.
[00:04:08] Sarah Noel Block: and it really fills your cup where it's like you mentioned blogging. Blogging is a pretty isolating marketing adventure. You're on your own, you're doing research, and if you love writing, that's perfect for you. But. I love writing.
[00:04:31] Sarah Noel Block: I'm a writer and I still, I need those conversations and that connection with people to really like, energize me and, fill my cup in a way that other marketing can't do.
[00:04:44] Tom Schwab: Often I find I'll spend time where I tell myself I'm working on marketing, and what I'm really doing is trying to avoid customers.
[00:04:54] Tom Schwab: Because I'm working hard. I'm, writing a blog. I'm, doing some social media posts, all the rest [00:05:00] of that. But is it really connecting with the customer? Am I getting that feedback? Am I learning as I'm doing that too? And I think especially now with like things like chat, G P T, I think written content is gonna.
[00:05:15] Tom Schwab: easier than ever to make. If it takes me an hour to write a, great blog, there's gonna be somebody else that with AI comes up with 60 blogs in in 60 minutes, will I be able to compete with that? Or will everybody just become that, become noise? Whereas if I'm actually talking, if I'm actually on a video at least right now with.
[00:05:41] Tom Schwab: It's me, right? And yeah, one of those things where you can't say enough of the wrong things to the right people or the right things to the wrong people, right? So when somebody hears you for 30 or 45 minutes, they either turned you up or turned you off, and that's fine, right? If they turned you off and you're not for them.
[00:05:59] Tom Schwab: great. There's [00:06:00] somebody else that is don't, waste their time. Don't waste your time. You don't wanna attract more leads. You wanna attract more ideal customers.
[00:06:07] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, the right leads. It's about attracting and repelling. Attracting the right people and repelling the wrong people. Yes. And podcasting is a good way to do that too, because your personality is showing through.
[00:06:20] Sarah Noel Block: And if you are not. The right vibe for somebody. They can tell during that and they can self eliminate themselves and it saves everybody time. , .
[00:06:32] Tom Schwab: And that's, and that's one of those great things. There's a lot of problems in the world, but there's no better time to be alive. , right? 30 years ago, your market was who could ever drive to your store or your marketing agency, or whatever it is Now, the world is our marketplace.
[00:06:57] Tom Schwab: And so when y [00:07:00] you're, we're geographically constrained. , you had to serve all people, right? And be all things to all people. Now you can be very specific and find your people and yeah. Find that tribe and let them find you. And that's where if, you look at it, those will be your most profitable customers, your happiest customers the ones that bring you and your team the most joy, and the ones that bring you new customers too.
[00:07:28] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. Yeah. And kneeing down just makes everything easier because you don't have to, and you shouldn't talk about anything and talk to everybody because you just dilute your message and dilute the problem that you solve it. It just, it benefits nobody. .
[00:07:49] Tom Schwab: Yeah. It's like that person that says it works for every.
[00:07:53] Tom Schwab: If it doesn't and they're either lying to you or they're lying to themselves, right? [00:08:00] If you want, today, more than ever, you want specialists, right? If you go into a doctor a hospital, you don't want the the doctor that does everything. No. You want the specialist that just does the one thing that, that you need.
[00:08:16] Tom Schwab: And I think it's the same thing on the internet too. If you serve all people and say that you can help everyone people say it can help no one.
[00:08:26] Sarah Noel Block: Yes. So the first learning point that you brought up was that podcast guesting is what guest blogging was in. 2003, and I was literally having this conversation on LinkedIn yesterday about how podcast, like the big benefit of guest blogging is getting in front of other people's audiences and converting them to your audience and the back links of that.
[00:08:59] Sarah Noel Block: When I first [00:09:00] started my business, . LinkedIn and guest blogging were huge aspects of my business because I didn't have an audience. I needed to build that, and now I can't even count the amount of podcasts I've been on as a guest. But all of those back links and then just people learning about who I am through guesting has had an amazing impact on my business.
[00:09:29] Sarah Noel Block: I I wanna hear your perspective on it.
[00:09:32] Tom Schwab: We've had some people that do podcast guesting just for the s e o, right? I think the first client that really pointed it out to me q Harrison Terry, he's the now he's the director of growth at Mark Cuban's Companies. And while he was in college, he had a company and he came to us and said, yeah, I just want to do it for the back.
[00:09:53] Tom Schwab: right? It, you
[00:09:54] Sarah Noel Block: do every show notes page you're on, you're getting back links. It's
[00:09:58] Tom Schwab: amazing. You gotta be [00:10:00] careful on that, right? Because if you go on blog talk radio or something, they don't have show notes, they don't have that back link, so you lose out on that value. But the flip side too is that you could say, oh, do you wanna go on the Tim Ferris show?
[00:10:14] Tom Schwab: Or do you want to go on an undergraduate podcast? at Harvard that has 200 downloads. If you want a back link from harvard.edu and say you were featured on Harvard, that is gold, right? That's true. And the other thing is today, it's not what you say about yourself, it's what other people say about you.
[00:10:38] Tom Schwab: So if somebody googles your name, what are they gonna find? Are they gonna find. Somebody with the same name, are they gonna find only your stuff? Or are they gonna see all of these interviews that you've been on? And they're gonna say, wow. Sarah is really an in-demand person. She's an expert because she's been on all of these other things.
[00:10:59] Tom Schwab: We had [00:11:00] one of our clients had reached out to someone to pay them incredible money to build a Wikipedia page for. , right? Because he wanted a Wikipedia page. And luckily the guy was smart and or the, person he reached out to was honest and he said, you know what? You really don't need a Wikipedia page.
[00:11:22] Tom Schwab: You've been on so many different podcasts that you now show up in the the Google, Knowledge panel. And so he said and, if you've seen these right, you Google somebody's name. Google will put it up even before the paid ads, even before Google a Wi Wikipedia panel look, new Google Knowledge panel.
[00:11:44] Tom Schwab: So put in like an a, celebrity, something like that. Often on a desktop, you see it on the right hand column and it will say, okay, here's the person, here's their social media. Here's a little [00:12:00] summary. that comes up before ads, and all of that comes from you being mentioned in other people's audience, right?
[00:12:08] Tom Schwab: You could have a great podcast, but if the only time you're mentioned is your own show, , you won't drive that. But Google's starting to think it's wow, if Tom Schwab, if people are mentioning him, he's been on all these other podcast interviews, this must be the person they're thinking of.
[00:12:26] Tom Schwab: And so that is you, think about how much people pay for first place on, on Google or first ad. that's expensive. If you get enough back links, if you get enough mentions right, Google will just say, okay, here's the knowledge link. Here's, what they're looking for. And that's priceless.
[00:12:46] Sarah Noel Block: That's brilliant. I've never heard of that. I'm gonna be in the look. I just Googled my name, . But one thing I noticed when I was Googling, my name is [00:13:00] this huge footprint from all of the podcasts I've been on.
[00:13:04] Sarah Noel Block: it's insane. The footprint that you can gain from guesting on other podcasts, ,
[00:13:10] Tom Schwab: and it used to be that. , every podcast was a good podcast. So I've been on over 1200 podcast interviews and I'm wow. In some ways I, I look at that as shame, right? . It's if, you aren't that discerning it's like the person that will speak anywhere.
[00:13:30] Tom Schwab: They'll speak at the opening of an envelope. But now often you'll see. , your last podcast interview or your last video shows up in your search. Yes. So you wanna be very discerning, right? I, just
[00:13:46] Sarah Noel Block: noticed that the most recent one I was on, or that published is the first one that showed up and I didn't even know it was published yet.
[00:13:54] Sarah Noel Block: Like I hadn't gotten the email yet.
[00:13:56] Tom Schwab: Yeah. So you've gotta be careful with that and make sure that [00:14:00] any appearance that you're on is consistent with your brand and would help. a sale along, right? Yeah. I call some podcasts Wayne's World Podcast. Remember two guys in their mom's basement. , I remember Wayne's World.
[00:14:14] Tom Schwab: If, you're trying to to close this six figure consulting deal and it's going and all of a sudden it needs the CEO's sign off and they Google your name and the first podcast that pops up is one of these podcast. that will kill the deal faster than anything. Or if you, that brilliant advice if, you reach out to a podcaster and say I, think I'd be great for your podcast.
[00:14:42] Tom Schwab: I'd love to be on, and they Google you, and the last one they find is A lousy little podcast, they'll just be like, yeah, no, I don't want this person. So you should be always conscious of it's the technical term for it is brand safety. So you wanna make [00:15:00] sure that your brand always looks good wherever you are.
[00:15:04] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. I am glad you brought that up because that's not something that people think about a lot. And something I noticed because interview valet, they reach out to me occasionally with. and I noticed how you pitch my podcast to your guests and it's always this is the value that you would get from being on this show.
[00:15:27] Sarah Noel Block: So you come from a very marketing p o v you are pitching. . Yeah.
[00:15:33] Tom Schwab: And we don't use the word pitch internally. I, understand where it comes from. Like you pitch an idea you pitch a story, but all of a sudden we've gone from pitching an inanimate object to pitching a human being. So we always look at it as introducing.
[00:15:50] Tom Schwab: And so we wanna know what the podcast is about. We wanna know what value the guest brings, and then we make that introduction. , right? [00:16:00] Because there's so many robo pitches out there right now. Yeah. For years I haven't had a podcast, but I still get pitched probably three or four times a day cuz I'm on a list and everybody loves the podcast and wants to be a guest.
[00:16:14] Tom Schwab: And it's more is not better. Better is better. And the better the podcast is the more pitches they get and most of them are just going to black hole.com.
[00:16:27] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah I, have noticed that you're very strategic. The people that you introduced me to for my show, they're always spot on. I'm like, yeah, that person makes a lot of sense to be on the show
[00:16:41] Tom Schwab: And in the past we've been doing this now for nine years, there wasn't a lot of data behind it. And now over the years, as the data has gotten better and better, It makes it so much easier, both from our internal databases, all the databases we license. Without that I [00:17:00] think most of it is podcast guessing, right?
[00:17:03] Tom Schwab: That's what we used to do nine years ago and I think it had be good. Let's give it a try. No. And now it's really gotten to. More advanced and makes it better for the guest, for the the host and for the audience. .
[00:17:18] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. You actually knew more about my podcast than I did, like analytic wise.
[00:17:24] Sarah Noel Block: I, I turned to my husband one night when I'm like, I received an interview from, an introduction from Interview Vale. I'm like, and I actually told to him, , I'm like, they know more about my podcast than, I do.
[00:17:39] Sarah Noel Block: I was like, oh, that's interesting, . I need to figure out how they knew
[00:17:43] Tom Schwab: that. We are people driven company. , but we make decisions based on data. The old phrase, in God we trust everyone else, bring data. Because when people come to us they, partner with us, they hire us to [00:18:00] get results, not just random interviews.
[00:18:02] Tom Schwab: And I really look at this as a marketing channel, right? Everybody's most valuable resource is their. And small business owners need to make the best use of all of their time, right? It's not like you've got a huge marketing department and interns and everything like that. You've gotta pick your channels on which ones give you the best results, which ones give you the best interviews.
[00:18:26] Tom Schwab: And most of us don't have time four or five years to learn something, right? Better figure out it from the beginning, get the results, and then keep doubling down on that. .
[00:18:38] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. There's a huge benefit of, from borrowing other people's audiences that a lot of small businesses don't realize the impact of.
[00:18:48] Sarah Noel Block: Or maybe they just don't realize that's an option. But that's how to that's, a hack. That's a hack for growing your audience. It's like [00:19:00] podcast guesting. Guest blogging has been huge for me. And then being webinar, a webinar partner with. Companies that share the same audience as. Growing my list that way.
[00:19:13] Sarah Noel Block: Another huge thing, but it's always been about borrowing other people's audiences.
[00:19:17] Sarah Noel Block: Uh,
[00:19:18] Tom Schwab: And it's, it, we call it a hack, but it's been used since before there was the word hack, right? . How get, get mentioned in the newspaper, right? Borrow their audience. Or you could start your own newspaper your choice or get seen on television.
[00:19:36] Tom Schwab: Would you rather if you wanted to be seen by Oprah's audience right back in the day, you could either sh start a show and build it just like Oprah or you could just get on her show, right? Yeah. And one of them's a whole lot easier. And sometimes I feel guilty when I say this because it's like, Literally I, was studying for this, preparing 15 minutes beforehand, right?[00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Tom Schwab: We'll finish up, we'll say goodbye. I'll go on with my day. And Sarah and her team have all the work now that they've got to edit it, they've got to put it out there, they've gotta promote it and I'll promote it too. But when you look at that, it's huh. One person here gets the majority of the benefit and the other person gets the majority of the work.
[00:20:24] Tom Schwab: Facts, ,
[00:20:27] Sarah Noel Block: we're ending this interview now. You thought bank, goodbye, .
[00:20:34] Tom Schwab: It's all that thing of return on investment, right? There's a time to have your own podcast and, sometimes people will say, should I be a guest or a host? I'm like, it's not an either or, right? It's should I be an Uber driver?
[00:20:48] Tom Schwab: or an Uber passenger? Yeah. It depends what your goals are, right? And if your goals are to nurture your current leads, nurture your current audience being a. [00:21:00] Host is an amazing way to do that, right? To build that authority. If you're looking to go out there and get new clients, get new leads, get new back links, you've gotta, you've gotta go into somebody's else's audience, right?
[00:21:14] Tom Schwab: This idea of, if I will, if I build it, they will come. That's never worked, right? And I, think this, while it's a podcast, guesting is a new. Tactic, if you will, because podcasting is relatively new. If you look at leveraging other people's audiences that's, a time tested strategy.
[00:21:38] Sarah Noel Block: It
[00:21:39] Sarah Noel Block: really is.
[00:21:39] Sarah Noel Block: It's just you, need to rethink what that looks like. every year. What does that look like this year? And yeah, I can say with my personal experience that podcast casting has been huge for me and for my own clients. I'm always recommending that you need to get in front of other people's audiences. I work with a lot of [00:22:00] small businesses and startups where they don't have an audience yet, and this is.
[00:22:06] Sarah Noel Block: The least frictional way to do it. , frictional. I'm pretty sure I made up that word, but you get it. , I under, there's no friction to it. .
[00:22:16] Tom Schwab: And, what do all, business owners love to talk about, right? They love to talk about their business and their kids. But that's redundant because their business is their kid, right?
[00:22:28] Tom Schwab: And they're the expert in that. So when you go on a podcast, you've got that expertise and, Actually, a friend helped me with this early on because I would always say I'm not an expert. And he's if you look at the legal definition of an expert, it's someone by their training, their knowledge, their experience has more.
[00:22:50] Tom Schwab: Has more knowledge than the average person. So it doesn't mean you're the world renowned undisputed expert, right? But if you working in your business [00:23:00] 60, 80 hours a week, you've got expertise, right? You've got insights, you've got vision on that, where the market is where it's going. Even your opinion know, that's, I was gonna say, that's the one thing that I'm the world renowned undisputed expert.
[00:23:16] Tom Schwab: Is my opinion. Your own thoughts? Yeah, and nobody, I'm not going on a podcast interview and somebody's asking me about car mechanics or whatever it is, if I'm, if that's not my expertise. It's really nice that you can just talk about what your passions
[00:23:36] Sarah Noel Block: So I wanna take this one step further.
[00:23:39] Sarah Noel Block: So you're borrowing other people's audiences by being a guest. What is a good way to capture those, that audience?
[00:23:46] Tom Schwab: Yeah. I love how Rand Fishkin from SEO O MAs talks about it. He said The best way to sell something today is not to sell anything, but to earn the respect, awareness, and trust [00:24:00] of those who might buy.
[00:24:02] Tom Schwab: After you've done that, you still need to figure out a way to move them from being a passive listener to an active visitor to an engaged lead, right? So often I see people at the end of an interview, somebody will say, so Tom, how can people get in touch with you? And they'll go, oh, you can find me here on Instagram and here on LinkedIn that you can go to this website and that website.
[00:24:27] Tom Schwab: I'm amazed. It's don't you understand? This is podcasting, right? Somebody is driving while they're doing this. They're they're working out. 70% of podcast interviews are listened to sped up. So you should always give them one place to go. And typically we call this a welcome page. So here, if you wanna see what a welcome page is, I'll make one here.
[00:24:50] Tom Schwab: Go to interview. Valet with a v.com/tiny marketing. It's not up yet but it will be. So don't Google it now. . [00:25:00] No, don't Google it now. It will be up in the next half hour. Okay. And so what would that would be? Would be a page this's Okay. Picture of Sarah and the podcast artwork. It will give some background of everything we talked about and then the three calls to action.
[00:25:21] Tom Schwab: Our testing over the last nine years has always been three calls to action. So every digital marketer will tell you one, I don't disagree with them, but our testing has always shown if you meet people where they are, it always works best. So for example, the small call to action would be if you're wondering, will podcast interview marketing work for me?
[00:25:46] Tom Schwab: Just come back there and there's an assessment, right? 10 questions. Rank yourself doesn't take much time or money, right? The medium, yes, is gonna take a little bit more time or money invested. So for me, [00:26:00] that's always, Hey, if you want a free copy of my book, podcast, guest Profits, how to Grow Your Business with the Targeted Interview Strategy, you can go there.
[00:26:08] Tom Schwab: I'll send you a free copy of the book, so a little bit more of a commitment. And then the heck yes, right? If somebody hears you on a podcast interview and they come with credit card in hand wanting to talk to the wizard, don't slow them down. . Don't make it hard for 'em. So for us, the heck yes is always, if this makes sense, right?
[00:26:30] Tom Schwab: If, you'd like to talk about how you could leverage other people's audience with podcast guesting, just come back to that page and I'll put my calendar link and, we could do a discovery call on that. So the ideas give them one place to go, an evergreen. ForeverGreen traffic, give them three ways to say yes.
[00:26:50] Tom Schwab: So meeting 'em where they are, and this is the only way that I have found where you can attribute traffic. So you know, if somebody hits that page, that's where they [00:27:00] came from.
[00:27:01] Sarah Noel Block: That is really smart. Creating a landing page for your guest opportunities. That I like that. And I'm going to create one probably later today,
[00:27:13] Sarah Noel Block: I have a media page, but it wouldn't be the same.
[00:27:17] Tom Schwab: And some people will do it in, or they'll just put like slash podcast interviews and they'll do it for all of them. But the best practice is to do it for each interview. That way you can attribute the traffic and it's a little bit different than say a regular landing page.
[00:27:34] Tom Schwab: Our testing has shown, always leaves the navigation on there, right? If somebody, hears you, and then they wanna look around their. Let 'em do it right. If they're that interested. Whereas most of the time a, landing page or a squeeze page doesn't have navigation. That's
[00:27:49] Sarah Noel Block: true. Okay. I like that idea.
[00:27:53] Sarah Noel Block: And to shorten the duration, like if you do a lot of podcast interviews, you could duplicate [00:28:00] that page and change the URL out and just like the welcome text and
[00:28:06] Tom Schwab: boom. Exactly. And really all you have to change is the hero image, which is the podcast artwork. The podcast name. The podcaster's name and then pronouns that go along with it.
[00:28:20] Tom Schwab: Besides that, it's a similar page, but what you'll wanna always do from a marketing perspective is make sure that the search engines aren't crawling that page, because you'll get dinged for duplicate content, and if people start finding it on the search engines, then it'll ma mess up your analytics.
[00:28:39] Tom Schwab: Did they find me from a search or did they find me from the podcast? Yeah.
[00:28:44] Sarah Noel Block: Smart. I learned a lot in this interview. , I, yeah. If you're wondering if there's a benefit to hosting, yeah. You learn a freaking lot from your guests. I would say the amount of things that I learned from my guests [00:29:00] and the relationships that I've built make it all worth it.
[00:29:03] Sarah Noel Block: All of the editing and promotion that I have to do, that you don't have to do , . So thank you so much for joining me today. Is there anything that you wanna add before we wrap up?
[00:29:14] Tom Schwab: I would just say that idea of you could help a lot of people, right? Often it's the, it seems like it's the loudest person that's, getting heard.
[00:29:27] Tom Schwab: Not the best person the, one that can throw the most money around. And there's a lot of problems in the world, like I said, but there's no better time to be alive here I am in, I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan, right? And through the wonders of the, internet and podcasting, really for not a whole lot of investment.
[00:29:45]Tom Schwab: You can reach the world and you can help the world. So I would just encourage you as a podcast guest, as a podcast host. If you're a writer, then write, but do something to, help other people. [00:30:00] We're blessed to be a blessing. Share what you've learned with them. if we can help you in any way, feel free, just come back to interview vale.com/tiny marketing and I'll have that page up here in the next half hour.
