Ep 35 (Part 1) Maximizing Efficiency: Which Marketing Activities to Let Go When Resources are Limited with Michelle Tresemer
What do you cut?
Consider your audience and what’s working when it’s to make cuts.
Are you a marketer with limited resources? We’re here to help you decide which marketing activities to cut so that you can focus your energy and budget on what really matters.
In this two-part episode, Michelle Tresemer and I investigated which marketing activities to cut when you have limited resources.
Episode Highlights
4:00: Set benchmarks before experimenting with new marketing activities.
10:00: Applying your life experiences to marketing.
17:00: Paretos Principal and how it applies to marketing.
In part one, Sarah and Michelle argue the importance (or lack of) of showing up on weekly blog posts and regular email newsletters.
Spoiler alert: We don’t always agree :)
Email newsletters (we fought over this one).
Email is one of the most effective marketing channels out there, but creating a newsletter takes time and resources. So, should you cut them? Again, it depends on your audience. If your audience is not receptive to email marketing, then it may be wise to cut back on newsletters. However, if your audience is engaged with your brand through email, then newsletters are definitely worth keeping.
Daily or weekly blog posts.
Blogging can be a great way to build your brand, earn SEO juice, and attract new customers, but it can also be time-consuming and expensive. Should you cut them? Well, if you’re not seeing any traction from your blog posts, then it may be wise to cut back. However, if your blog is generating traffic and engagement, then it’s definitely worth keeping.
Episode Guest: Michelle Tresemer
Michelle Tresemer translates marketing strategy to tactical marketing operations. She is a passionate and experienced marketing analyst and down-to-earth consultant, teacher, and coach helping clients do the right things, not just more things when it comes to marketing. She has worked with over 125 brands since founding the company in 2011.
Episode 35 Transcript
Sarah Noel Block: [00:00:00] You don't have a lot of time. In fact, you are probably listening to this at 1.4 speed and I sound like a chipmunk. If this is the case, you are probably looking for things to cut well in this two part episode. Yes, two parts. I'm talking to Michelle Tresemer, founder of Foundation's First Marketing, and we're going through a list of marketing activities that you can cut if you just don't have the time.
Stay tuned.
Hello, and welcome to Tiny Marketing. I'm Sarah Noel Block and I teach small marketing departments that are tired of feeling overwhelmed and under-resourced. How to build and manage effective and efficient marketing strategies that work for them. Get ready. It's time to dig in and get a big impact with your tiny team.
Michelle Tresemer: Hi, I am Michelle Tresemer, the founder of Foundation's First Marketing. I am a mentor for one person marketing [00:01:00] departments.
Sarah Noel Block: I wanna talk more about that. You just started your membership. Can you tell me about it?
Michelle Tresemer: Sure. Early in my career, I was often the one person in charge of marketing. , it was just me. I had to manage all the vendors.
No boss that really knew marketing. It was usually a founder or a CEO directly. So smaller, more startupy type companies. That is exhausting was, yes, it's worked. That
Sarah Noel Block: was me too. ,
Michelle Tresemer: yes. I think we've all been there at some point in our career, but it turns out I'm wired as a marketing generalist.
So the people who do really well as those one person marketing departments, they like a lot. about a lot of marketing.
Sarah Noel Block: Yes, this is true . This is where curious people, yeah,
Michelle Tresemer: like I spend my free time reading techy, nerdy website magazines all the time for fun because [00:02:00] marketing is really fun to me.
But I'm a marketing generalist, so I will go and explore PPP C and try it, and I'm fearless. . So that works great as a one person marketer, but it's lonely. Yeah. And it's, ugh. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Who do? Who's your soundboard?
Sarah Noel Block: No soundboard. And then you feel like you get really imposter syndrome me because you're like, no, I don't have anyone to bounce ideas off of.
And I don't know if this. truly successful or not? There's no collaboration in it.
Michelle Tresemer: The worst is when the boss hears a marketing concept somewhere, oh
Sarah Noel Block: my God, that happens all
Michelle Tresemer: the time. And then they come back and say, Michelle, why aren't we doing A, B, C? And it's oh man, that is so wrong for us. Not a good fit.
But I don't have anyone to back me.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, you're the boss. I guess we're trying that's actually what we're talking about today is what to cut and [00:03:00] what to keep, and that is something I just talked about in this speaking engagement I was talking to. It was a bunch of one person marketing departments and zero people marketing departments where it.
someone was grabbed from a different department to do marketing, and like what? You should really be cutting because. . Either you hear it's always been done this way, so this is the way we're gonna go. Or you have some really overzealous hands-on boss that is I just heard about this marketing thing.
Let's try it. And you're like that doesn't really fit into our strategy. It doesn't make.
Michelle Tresemer: Can we talk about that a hot second? Cause what you're saying that so resonates with me. The trick of this is it's so easy to start all of these marketing things. It's easy to try them and start them. You can't stop them.
It's really hard to say, Ooh, no, we're gonna cut back on [00:04:00] that. The
Sarah Noel Block: fear. . Yes. Yes. Because you feel like you're failing. If you have to cut something that I was calling the mushroom zombies, like last of us, you know those mushroom zombies, how they just take over your life. They take over your body. That's what I was calling them in this speaking engagement.
And it's okay. It's okay to cut and think of marketing as an experiment , you can like once a quarter say, I'm gonna experiment with this thing, but this is the benchmark that means success, and this is the number that means that we're cutting it. Just give yourself three months to try it out.
I love
Michelle Tresemer: setting that benchmark ahead of time, if at all possible. So yeah, in advance of starting a newsletter, which is the one I always cut first, what are we trying to accomplish? If no one can answer that, then we don't. But if there is an answer, let's decide, okay, at what point is this no longer serving us?
Let's pick that number up upfront. [00:05:00] Otherwise, you're gonna make excuse after excuse. That's so true. This, we could try
Sarah Noel Block: that. Yeah. No, you need to have that number up front. Otherwise, you're going to keep going and your number's going to evolve over time when it shouldn't . I hope the number's there to act as a benchmark of successor failure.
Yeah.
Michelle Tresemer: There's always the one person who says but we could try this where we should send it at 8:00 AM instead of 6:00 AM Yeah.
Sarah Noel Block: I'll fix everything's tweaking it. You can tweak a little bit, but you still need that benchmark right up front. Otherwise you're going to tweak until you die . Yep. And
Michelle Tresemer: then pretty soon you've added 50 things that you're tweaking
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, exactly. If you don't end up cutting anything and everything is you still an experimentation. you're just overwhelming yourself. And those one person marketing departments do not have the bandwidth to be overwhelming themselves.
Michelle Tresemer: No. Most of [00:06:00] the people I work with nobody works 40 hours.
Everybody in that position is over 40 hours and half of 'em haven't had a vacation in
Sarah Noel Block: years. Oh my gosh. That was not me. I was like, , you don't pay me enough , you don't pay me enough for that.
Michelle Tresemer: I was the 80 hour a week at one point because I'm so type A and A people pleaser and have rejection sensitivity.
So man, ooh, but I,
Sarah Noel Block: it might be opposites on that. I was like, you know what? These are boundaries. ,
Michelle Tresemer: teach me your ways. . You're still working on boundaries. .
Sarah Noel Block: It's hard when you have your own business, the boundaries, because then you're like, am I hurting my bottom line eventually with these boundaries? But then people will take advantage of you if you don't have 'em,
Michelle Tresemer: right?
Oh yeah. Learn that one the hard way. .
Sarah Noel Block: Haven't we all? Yeah. . Okay, so you made a list of items that you would potentially cut that's on your like first cut list. And [00:07:00] the first one you have on this list I completely disagree with. Let's talk about that one first. weekly or monthly newsletters. Tell me your reason.
Michelle Tresemer: Great. When I work with clients and I look for where can we cut things like what is taking your time? , the newsletter always comes up because it's one of those things where they say, oh, we've always done it. And then the second red flag is always when I ask, why are you doing this? What is the goal?
Are you, is this part of a nurturer? What are you doing 90% of the time? The answer I get is the c e wants it. We wanna stay top of mind. . It's are you adding value for top of mind or you just want your name in their inbox? And most of the time it's, we just wanna be in their inbox.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. We want them to see we
Michelle Tresemer: exist. Yes. Which I totally understand and I respect that. I really do. But if this is just an exercise, like an ego trip [00:08:00] for the founder or c e o. , that is not a good enough reason to do it so frequently. Let's try to do it less frequent and add some very real value that's more strategic.
Let's
Sarah Noel Block: talk about that for a second, because I've recently started talking more about like MVPs, , the minimum viable, but For content? Yes. That's something you can do with newsletters is try an MVP during the experimentation phase and see how people are receiving it. Do they like it? Are they engaging?
Your open rate good and test it out that way.
Michelle Tresemer: Yeah. One of the tests I make clients do, cuz they, they never wanna cut that like they are. They're married to it, like there is a commitment or something with this newsletter and it's received
Sarah Noel Block: love. Their opening, their little intro letter , that is
Michelle Tresemer: exactly what it's about to attack next, that exact thing.
So what I try to get them to do is, look, let's compromise and on the next couple ones, let's not put the whole content in there. [00:09:00] put snippets that link off to something. I wanna see if they're interested in any of this content that you spent four hours digging up
Sarah Noel Block: that I completely agree with. , that's the way to go with it.
And your letter has to be like worthwhile teach something. Do not just make it a like those Christmas family letters where they're just sending a letter that's just this is what we're doing right now and it's all about me. And then they send it out to the family and you're like, I don't care.
I haven't seen you since last Thanksgiving.
Michelle Tresemer: the worst are the CEOs who actually talk about their vacation they just took and try to tie that back to a tech stack or B2B SaaS thing. It's what are you doing? No one cares that you just got back from
Sarah Noel Block: Hawaii. Oh my gosh. That's like that LinkedIn meme where it's like I was brushing my teeth and , this is how it's connected to
Michelle Tresemer: marketing.
Absolutely. I was thinking, cuz I [00:10:00] was telling you before this, that I had a plumbing emergency on Sunday and I was thinking, okay, how can I tie this to the Pareto principle how I shower now? Cause I'm looking for the 20% of hygiene that is gonna get me 80% of my. because I have barely any water.
That really
Sarah Noel Block: sucks though, .
Michelle Tresemer: It does, but like my brain went straight to gross. Sleazy marketer. How do I tie those together? .
Sarah Noel Block: That's how we function as marketers. We're like, yeah, how can I make this experience marketing ? It's storytelling, right? I know. Are you working on your content marketing, but it's not bringing in any.
The problem might be your website. Find out the five website issues that kill content marketing efforts so you can fix them and quickly see the results with increased in conversions, traffic, and good fit leads. Go to Tiny marketing.me/website. [00:11:00] Mistakes to sign up. We go live on April 18th at noon Central Standard time.
See you there. So going back to the newsletter, so the reason I disagree with cutting at first is because it's like a way to build relationship with your people, but you have to be doing it really strategically. It has to be value driven newsletter, and it can't. I've worked for those companies where the newsletter is.
A brag letter from the CEO and nothing valuable, and those are shit they are worth cutting. But if you can drive value and you're teaching them how to solve their problem within that newsletter each week or each month, then it's a great way to build relat. Getting those replies back from people and oh, I'm actually talking to humans.
we're having an interaction now. That feels so [00:12:00] good. .
Michelle Tresemer: Yeah, and I don't disagree with you like a hundred percent in, it's just tough, I think to get people to make that shift right away. It's easier for me to get them to say, look, let's do one a quarter. That's really good. Let's put our, because it takes a lot of mental power to do a really good newsletter.
It doesn't take more time, I don't think. It takes more mental energy than to do a crap newsletter more frequently.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. If you were to want to keep it at weekly, then you would probably also need to have that core content. , yes. Where you're consistently creating the same type of content, whether it's in a series or episodic content, so you have something to talk about every week.
It would have to be in that sort of format, otherwise, or you're reusing it in another way. Like I know someone who uses her newsletter as her core piece of content, and then she does a podcast on that topic. So it's going to be super value driven. , [00:13:00] she cared enough to want it to be a basic script for her podcast.
Michelle Tresemer: Yeah. And nobody does that like this. I'm thinking typical, c e o, like they're, no, you're right. They're not thinking that way. So you know what kind of newsletter that I get cranky about? Yes, I do. .
Sarah Noel Block: I know exactly. I've probably written them many times, I think we all have, they're so cringe to hit Send on Ooh.
Yeah. You're like, oh God, don't look at me. . .
Michelle Tresemer: Yeah. But doing 'em right and strategically and you have that good new content full of value. Absolutely love it.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. So I would say when you're deciding if you wanna quit it or not have those benchmarks in mind, what do you want that open and that click route through rate to be.
And Hanley always says her reply rate, like people who hit reply on those emails, that's one of her favorite benchmarks.
Michelle Tresemer: Ooh, that's rough. I'm trying to think of all of my I have a lot of B2B tech industrial type [00:14:00] clients. I can't remember the last time they got any replies. Like people just don't engage with their con.
So I'm thinking, oh yeah, that's a great
Sarah Noel Block: metric. Yeah. And you have to include that in the strategy of the newsletter where you're asking questions and you're asking them to reply. or give some sort of feedback to encourage it.
Michelle Tresemer: Yeah. You mean it's about relationship building? Yes,
Sarah Noel Block: I do. . Wow. It's novel.
Michelle Tresemer: I love it. You actually have to like your customers and wanna talk to them. .
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. Yeah. Not dread. When you see them in inbox and you're like, oh no, what's this problem I have to solve .
Michelle Tresemer: That's great.
Sarah Noel Block: Actually, can you introduce your principles that you had mentioned earlier? Would you like all
Michelle Tresemer: three? I want
Sarah Noel Block: all three.
Give 'em to me. .
Michelle Tresemer: Yeah. All right. There are three principles that I live by in my own business and I teach clients. The [00:15:00] first one that I use more than any other is the Pareto principle. Long story short, 20% of everything you're doing is generating 80% of the outcome. So it initially started with employees.
So big companies, 20% of the employees are generating 80% of the output. You've got those A players. Same with your content, 20% of it is generating 80% of the traffic. Do you see where I'm going with this? Yes, I do. So when we talk about cutting, it's putting on that Pareto principle hat thinking.
Who are our best customers? The top 20%, what do they need? Let's look at all of our marketing activities, what is likely to be the top performing activities? Let's optimize those first.
Sarah Noel Block: Yes, I just put together this it's a customer avatar and journey bundle, and basically what it walks you through is identifying those top 20%, those customers [00:16:00] and finding what is the problem that they need solved.
Where is it that they, what channels do they hang out on? What content mediums do they prefer? So that, but then going into what activities are actually moving the needle at each stage. Oh, I love that of the buyer's journey and it makes such a huge difference. You can really like streamline and hone in on what marketing actually matters because you're only marketing to those best
Michelle Tresemer: customers, and this is in your bundle.
Okay. So you can shut up and take my money right now. . That's amazing.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. I put together this content marketing program, like this one module is insane. I need to pull that out and make that a bundle.
Michelle Tresemer: Yes. I will be giving that to everyone. That sounds awesome. So that's Pareto principle. Use it for everything.
Great way to cut. really good. The next one is, I [00:17:00] learned this, I don't know, maybe six months ago. It's new to my vocabulary, is Parkinson's law. The best example of this is if you have a blog post to write and you give yourself two weeks, it's gonna take you two weeks to do it. If you give yourself two hours, you're gonna get it done in two hours.
Sarah Noel Block: This could not be more true, and it happens to me all the time. , I, yeah. That's why I usually suggest that people set up like a batching day, because if you give yourself one day to create all of that content for the month and schedule it out right, then you get it done .
Michelle Tresemer: Oh yes you do. Yes. I didn't know I had a name.
Yes. Parkinson's Law. I use that one. Like for everything. Yeah. I'm wired neuro divergent, so I need the dopamine hit of a last minute thing. Procrastination is all tied into that. Very similar. If I [00:18:00] procrastinate, then I have this very limited amount of time to get the thing done, and I will get it done very quickly.
Sarah Noel Block: What's that timer method where it's like Pomodoro? Yes.
Michelle Tresemer: Do you do that? I absolutely do. When I can focus enough for it. Yes. And I can do four to six a day and it's fantastic. I have a little timer and then I get up and stand up for my five minute breaks and, but yeah, it time blocks me and I challenge myself.
I make it a little game. Can I get this done in, in this one Yes.
Sarah Noel Block: Session. That's so smart. hear my dog going nuts? ? Is
Michelle Tresemer: everything okay?
Sarah Noel Block: Delivery or something? I hope it's something cool. Me too. . It's probably some kid walking by .
Michelle Tresemer: I love it. Yeah, so that's Parkinson's law. So the way I see this in action, again with that blog content, if you don't have a deadline, you're gonna tweak it and tweak it some more.
and it just sits on your desktop?
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah I'm doing that right now because I [00:19:00] didn't batch it and it's like the part that's edited is in my my c m s and then the rest of it is in a doc that's . I'm embarrassed for myself, but yeah, it's just like a, an extra piece of content that's not part of my normal system, so I've just been procrastinating on it.
Michelle Tresemer: Uhhuh. . So even the experts in content deal with this stuff, like it's every day. So that brings us to the last one that I also use all the time. The love diminishing returns, which hopefully everyone remembers this from like high school economics class. This was always taught way back then. Love diminishing returns again.
Looking at that blog post that is taking you two weeks. , the closer it gets to done, the more you start tweaking it, the less return you're gonna get on it. Like the less that change matters. So at some point it needs to be just good enough cuz everything after that, you're just not gonna get out [00:20:00] what you're putting in.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. And I think that a lot of times good enough is good enough. We procrastinate because of perfectionism and fear of. Someone's gonna be judging us because we made some sort of mistake. But people are attracted to human and I don't think it's a big deal to have glitch in your video or a typo in your LinkedIn post.
None of that really matters. Nobody cares. No. And
Michelle Tresemer: people forget all the time. We are it is 2023. We are not doing print publications like we used to where you would do hard copy print things and if you had a major typo, you couldn't go back and fix it. Now if you need to tweak something, it takes 30 seconds and it's out there.
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. Yeah. And. , even if it's remains out there, who cares? .
Michelle Tresemer: [00:21:00] Yeah. But it's iterative. It's like great, get it good enough. If you need to go back later, you totally can. Just knowing that it's possible to go back Yeah. Often tricks my brain into saying, okay, yes, I'm just gonna push this live. That's true.
It's
Sarah Noel Block: Like every digital creation you have is a living document and can be edited and changed. .
Michelle Tresemer: Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, law of diminishing returns is a great reminder, especially when you're trying to cut back, like what are you spending way too many cycles doing? Are your blog posts going 10 rounds with the C E o when it was good enough on draft two?
Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, that's a huge thing is when there's too many stakeholders involved in the content creation and it just keeps going through revisions. There needs to be, boundaries. Once again, , there needs to be boundaries and one person that is in charge of giving the, okay, especially like for anybody who's listening that is a [00:22:00] content creator, then you know the paint of getting contradicting revisions from companies and you're like what the hell do you actually want?
Because these are totally different directions you're asking for.
Michelle Tresemer: And I love it cuz no one notices when it's actually published. Like I don't think anybody in the actual company goes back and reads the
Sarah Noel Block: final. I guarantee they do not . They care. In the moment before you go ahead to our show notes page and sign up for our joint webinar where we're sharing the mistakes you're making on your website that are killing your content marketing efforts.
Go on. I'll wait. Now that you're done with that, remember to tune in for part two next time. Thank you.
Hello, and thank you for joining Tiny Marketing. I helped tiny marketing departments create consistent content that builds trust with their audience. Book done for you content [00:23:00] marketing@sarahnoelblock.com. Don't forget to follow right and review the podcast on your favorite podcast app. See you next time, friends.
